tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196124033481143515.post1950407759630597016..comments2024-03-12T07:11:33.877+00:00Comments on Regency History: When was the London season?Rachel Knowleshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14058142939706153724noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196124033481143515.post-83027869976565629152020-12-30T12:17:58.315+00:002020-12-30T12:17:58.315+00:00I find it interesting, how there is much confusion...I find it interesting, how there is much confusion about the use of the term 'Débutante' which was later Anglicised to 'Debutante' and how it would later usurp the terms 'Presentee', 'Elevee' or 'Entrant'. The term 'Débutante' was formally used at the French Royal Court since King Louis XII, although some argue earlier, but by Louis XIII it definitely was part of the French Court vernacular. The awkwardness of its use at the English Court was two fold. One due to Anti-French sentiment, but more importantly the Debuts were not as formalised as they were at the French Court. In most cases, they were essentially private balls or the like hosted by Grand families for members of other Grand Families. This way the breeding and assurance of the country's wealth was kept within the circle of these Grand Families thus maintaining the Status Quo. The term was further tainted due to when women were finally permitted to perform on stage during the late 17th Century on both sides of the English Channel with permission of Louis XIV in France and King Charles II in Britain. The complexity of such relaxation towards women's involvement in public spectacles is layered. For example, the Paris Opera finally allowed women to enter into the profession of dance and opera in 1680; even though French noblewomen along with members of the French Royal Family, been performing in ballets since 1581. However, this was always within the confines of the French Royal Court. This resulted in the term, 'Débutante' being applied to any woman who was being presented to a public audience on stage for the first time thus drawing parallels with those young chaste noblewomen being presented at Court also for the first time. Molière even drew similar parallels between the Diva ad Primum and the Debutante with the added drama of "... lambs to the slaughter". Charming??? However, this did not mean the term was never used in English social circles, be it usually in a mocking way. Some social critics would use it as to infer how young respectable young ladies were expected to 'Perform' at such events. So it was during towards the end of the Regency Era did the term begin to take more 'Respectability' due to what would eventually give rise to the 'Romantic Era'. This had a lot to due with how ballet would give the 19th Century the 'Prima Ballerina' as she embodied 'Perfection' with her ethereal attributes. By which, the 'La Dame Artiste' had become respectable and by Queen Victoria's reckoning with her overhauling the exacting protocols of 'Coming Out' the term would become steadfast. So given its evolution, the term could be used as a double edged sword. This is doubly so as it was often used, and still is, for young men entering the field of battle for the first time or sporting event. This was reflective of the notion of how a boy must leave the comforts of his mother's bosom to leave his childhood behind. So in context of the Regency Era, the term was not to misunderstood, just more obscure and was regarded being that 'French word' as they would had it. Given by what known documentation, although many scholars still debate this, 'Presentee' seems was most common even though it did vary from season to season and by whom. So it appears it was very discretionary. No wonder why Queen Victoria would later put her foot down. How could anyone know what was going on? L.O.C.A.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/17864712300386679763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196124033481143515.post-13340688965717521822019-01-30T17:10:49.054+00:002019-01-30T17:10:49.054+00:00There were many who lived in town all year round. ...There were many who lived in town all year round. Some might go off to visit friends or relatives in August or at Christmas but there were many who were in Town for most of the year.Royals and government officials as well as the regular townspeople and the people of the city. The area was never completely empty of aristocracy or nobles. Even when parliament wasn't in session the cabinet and privy council were conducting business. The courts had a Michaelmas term from October to December The world's largest city was always busy. Though the parliamentary season could go from fall to July, parliament often didn't meet from July to February. The Queen's birthday was often celebrated in February or January and many people returned to town for it. If the man was active in politics he and his wife were often in town during January with Parliament sitting in February. The entertainments slowed down-- even at the theatres-- during Lent but never completely stopped.. Parliament wasn't on a strict schedule. They generally held sessions in the autumn after a general election or when dealing woth a national emergency like a war.<br />Regencyresearcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10828749339318882968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196124033481143515.post-82908764357739174872019-01-20T15:36:47.471+00:002019-01-20T15:36:47.471+00:00This is interesting, thank you. I was looking at t...This is interesting, thank you. I was looking at theatre history online when I came across performance dates for the Adelphi Theatre in London. Their season commenced in October 1815 and continued through to April 1816, which seems to suggest there must have been people in London then to provide them with an audience, or perhaps they played not to the aristocracy in the autumn and winter but mostly to the middle classes or tradespeople. Cecilia Peartreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12653871639579934396noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196124033481143515.post-52768134073772726032018-10-14T02:46:28.736+01:002018-10-14T02:46:28.736+01:00Ladies were presented to court on two dates before...Ladies were presented to court on two dates before Easter and two dates after Easter. Debs considered this a proper'kick off' to their first season, and might delay coming out until then. Of course, this cut the expenses for the first season, which was needed, on account of the expenses involved in the presentation! The dress alone could cost up to £500! Then the lace, veil, jewels, hair, carriage, and not to mention the ball to celebrate it all would add a greater expense. The after Easter balls were best because that's when the rich people celebrate debutantes coming out. Although, they weren't called by the word "debutantes" until much later. Also, men went to leveés, sometimes held by the prince during this time. They wore uniforms if they had served in the military. Look up court dress code for regency era. Very strict rules! But people who could afford to buy all of the one use only dresses and things were wealthy and threw the best balls. Hence, the Season.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07646990696521107850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196124033481143515.post-82844944668450113982018-04-04T17:39:53.364+01:002018-04-04T17:39:53.364+01:00It seems as though the Queen celebrated her birthd...It seems as though the Queen celebrated her birthday in either January or February-- I have seen the date in both months. of course, January was before the beginning of Lent. I haven't seen all the newspapers of all the years for February and March but the ones I have seen tell of people holding dinners, and routs and musical evenings and other entertainments-- they didn't report holding balls. However, that didn't mean that none of the gatherings included dancing. They wouldn't necessarily advertise that they were going to dance. The Queen's birthday was usually held around the time Parliament was to resume sitting after Christmas. Unless the men had to take the oath or unless there were urgent matters to deal with, many members didn't bother to come until later. The government officials and law judges were in town or returned from where they had spent Christmas. The big balls were usually held after Easter from what I gather form social notes.Regencyresearcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10828749339318882968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196124033481143515.post-20813002666407736532018-04-04T17:04:22.841+01:002018-04-04T17:04:22.841+01:00I don't think there can have been hard and fas...I don't think there can have been hard and fast rules. In my research for my latest book, set in 1810, Easter Sunday was 22 April and whilst I have found evidence for the theatres closing for the week running up to Easter, I have also found details of routs, balls and other entertainments that took place during Lent. The Queen held a birthday drawing room on 18 January which was well attended and this may well have prompted many people's return to London. Rachel Knowleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14058142939706153724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196124033481143515.post-77914733325938992962018-03-31T16:37:24.934+01:002018-03-31T16:37:24.934+01:00Sorry, put it below! The season always started aft...Sorry, put it below! The season always started after Lent. You couldn't marry during Lent, have big parties, and all the places of entertainment were closed during Lent. <br />So not so much fasting, as observing Church dictates. Look in the church calendars for the period you're interested in.Lynne Connollyhttp://lynneconnolly.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196124033481143515.post-73596403190183014832018-03-31T16:34:59.152+01:002018-03-31T16:34:59.152+01:00An important marker for the start of the season wa...An important marker for the start of the season was Lent. You couldn't get married during Lent, and all the places of entertainment were closed. It would have been bad form to have a big party during Lent, as well. So after Easter, whenever that was.Lynne Connollyhttp://lynneconnolly.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196124033481143515.post-13553130842454006582018-03-28T12:00:41.194+01:002018-03-28T12:00:41.194+01:00The fasting of Lent didn't enter into the matt...The fasting of Lent didn't enter into the matter because the season started after Easter. Also, strict observance of Lent was considered something for Roman Catholics and not for the Church of England. There generally weren't any balls during the Lenten season . members of parliament returned to town in February when Parliament resumed after the Christmas break if it had sat in the fall at all. Quite often parliament didn't meet between July and February. The season was from after Easter to June or July .If Parliament was in session in November and December, people entertained as they would. Usually the Advent season sees people partying more rather than less. According to the newspapers, there usually weren't any balls during Lent and the theatre put on more benefit concerts than regular plays. The theatres were closed and people didn't party during Holy week-- the week between Palm Sunday and Easter . Regencyresearcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10828749339318882968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196124033481143515.post-87164326464944231172018-03-28T11:47:07.328+01:002018-03-28T11:47:07.328+01:00That's a fascinating question and one that I d...That's a fascinating question and one that I don't know the answer to! I don't remember ever having come across any references to Lenten fasting in London during this period.Rachel Knowleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14058142939706153724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196124033481143515.post-26787296579652685932018-03-15T17:46:28.255+00:002018-03-15T17:46:28.255+00:00How did the Season work with the fasting and other...How did the Season work with the fasting and other rules around Advent and Lent? Were menus limited to non-meat items?Marynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196124033481143515.post-18911795071826354482017-10-06T11:51:46.054+01:002017-10-06T11:51:46.054+01:00Read Gilded Butterflies-- a book about the season....Read Gilded Butterflies-- a book about the season.<br />The URL you give is mainly post regency. For one thing, the author says the ladies went to Paris to get a suitable wardrobe. Of course they didn't do that during the early days of the regency because the countries were at war. During the regency the Queen's drawing rooms were not held on a regular schedule and it wasn't necessary for a girl to be presented to be OUT. The girl hoped to be married and would be presented as a bride whether presented as a single girl or not. The organized system of debutantes came later in the century. Regencyresearcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10828749339318882968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196124033481143515.post-10033058365551174892017-09-25T10:15:14.560+01:002017-09-25T10:15:14.560+01:00Susan: While I don't wish to appear pedantic, ...Susan: While I don't wish to appear pedantic, I think the word you meant by "persay" is actually per se. I'm sure you would want to be correct being an author. Kathleenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15354866071386941365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196124033481143515.post-54879758217620366972017-09-25T10:09:31.041+01:002017-09-25T10:09:31.041+01:00I would be interested to know your source for the ...I would be interested to know your source for the information about a "little season" in Heyers' youth, which would have been during WW1, or even if "the seasons" would have continued during the war, partly due to the lack of young men. Kathleenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15354866071386941365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196124033481143515.post-35082655479589637892017-09-25T09:21:01.818+01:002017-09-25T09:21:01.818+01:00I think this is a very informative article about t...I think this is a very informative article about the season:<br />http://www.thehistorybox.com/ny_city/society/printerfriendly/nycity_society_london_season_article0008.htmKathleenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15354866071386941365noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196124033481143515.post-77030386979335851002017-06-05T14:40:23.940+01:002017-06-05T14:40:23.940+01:00There was a little season in Heyers own youth whi...There was a little season in Heyers own youth which she transposed back to the regency period. It was rare for wives and daughters to be in town without a brother or husband unless the mother was widowed. The newspapers of the day seldom report large balls during October and November. Those were the prime hunting months. Hunting stopped around February and didn't pick up again to August for fowl and September October for foxes. Heyer had an incorrect use of a special licence in The Reluctant Widow and had errors in other places. She had the British library but she didn't have the convenience of computers and search engines. She is much more accurate than most authors. No one should depend on Gronow except for atmosphere. He was one of those to whom the patronesses of Almacks' refused to give vouchers-- if his report of their doing so is true. <br /> If I had world enough and time --- Regencyresearcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10828749339318882968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196124033481143515.post-53940207345369742282017-05-26T01:11:34.182+01:002017-05-26T01:11:34.182+01:00Even well before the Regency period it was rare fo...Even well before the Regency period it was rare for the House of Lords to sit at Christmas, which was generally celebrated at country estates. Indeed, it was rare for the Lords to sit at all during midwinter, because this was the hunting season, particularly in the Home Counties. For their wives and daughters, continuing to entertain in London was quite another matter; however, it was often conducted more or less without men in attendance during those months. In addition, I've caught Georgette Heyer out in one or two historical errors but I wouldn't bet against her where the "Little Season" is concerned. She began collecting her large personal reference library in the 1920s, when the world she wrote about was only a century distant; it is now 200 years vanished, and a great many sources have simply disappeared.Rod Kierkegaard Jrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10823044286459788692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196124033481143515.post-3767064586574524342016-10-26T20:39:59.169+01:002016-10-26T20:39:59.169+01:00It's true that it might be something of her ow...It's true that it might be something of her own creation for her own novels that other writers have adopted the use of but I think it's also entirely possible that back in her day in England she may have come across an actual source that has never been digitized and/or is no longer available maybe except in a library so there is very little record of it. It could also have been a first person source passed down in her own family about someone who attended the season as well as a 'little season'...so it could be perfectly accurate and just very under-recorded until the Victorian age. <br />However, without knowing for sure, while it wouldn't stop me from using it if it was unavoidable in my plot I would definitely see if I could avoid using a 'little season' first. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196124033481143515.post-84136845684482545792016-08-31T12:01:49.701+01:002016-08-31T12:01:49.701+01:00As others have noted much confusion surrounds the ...As others have noted much confusion surrounds the idea of a fall season. I don't think Parliament met regularly in the fall until later in the century. In the early years of the 19th century, parliament met in the autumn after a general election when there was a state opening of parliament. That only happened about once every seven years. However, deaths and other events could cause autumn meetings and elections out side the seven year pattern.People lived in and around town all year and government officials and royals entertained year round. There were some months where the newspapers carried little in society news beyond the report of the health of the royal family and whether the Duke of York attended a dinner for army veterans.People entertained all year around-- they usually didn't hold big balls or launch girls on their season all year. Dinners and routs, musical evenings and theatre parties were held. People didn't abandon town -- though they might leave during August for a stay in the country. Aristocrats lived and worked and entertained in town most of the months of the year. The season for launching daughters was after Easter to July.Regencyresearcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10828749339318882968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196124033481143515.post-73388803046674727502016-08-24T16:42:19.935+01:002016-08-24T16:42:19.935+01:00Charlotte Betts--- Queen Charlotte died in 1818. K... Charlotte Betts--- Queen Charlotte died in 1818. King George III in 1820. They had mourning until through February. <br />ladies only needed to be presented to go to court. They didn't need to be presented to be "out."Regencyresearcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10828749339318882968noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196124033481143515.post-86275313324244663722016-08-16T20:46:46.019+01:002016-08-16T20:46:46.019+01:00Thank you for clarifying. From Jane Austen's b...Thank you for clarifying. From Jane Austen's books, it seemed the season did begin in the Fall and carry through till Spring,when it seemed more likely that people would want to be in the country or traveling. I got really confused reading the Wikipedia page stating the season ran from Easter till August.peaches290https://www.blogger.com/profile/09323340008583547753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196124033481143515.post-42323076285809835952016-05-20T19:21:24.217+01:002016-05-20T19:21:24.217+01:00Because I needed an autumn ball or similar larger ...Because I needed an autumn ball or similar larger social activity in 1813 London to set the scene for important events in my latest novel, I tried very hard to find support for a "Little Season," but sadly, no solid references were found. Logic states that when the nobility planned to be in Town for parliamentary sessions, dinners and balls would be planned of a scale that suited the expected influx of the bon ton. The actual dates the King opened and closed parliament each year are available from Hansard. 1810-11 was "the year with no Christmas," when members of Parliament were in ad-hoc meetings over the King's illness well into December. Since the meetings were unplanned, it's doubtful there were a great deal of large social events that autumn. In 1813, the year I wanted a "Little Season," Parliament opened in late November, two months later than I would have liked! It created a difficult gap in my time-line, then scrunched up critical events near Christmas! I don't yet know if my editor will insist on refining the events and time line. The scene in question is near the end, and we're editing Chapter 6 for an autumn 2016 release. I appreciate blog posts like this one, that add further facts to my arsenal of knowledge on this topic. Thanks, Rachel!Suzan Lauderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13770386453085972642noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196124033481143515.post-76674473383070982162016-04-14T01:07:47.401+01:002016-04-14T01:07:47.401+01:00As his consort, Queen Charlotte would have been in...As his consort, Queen Charlotte would have been in deep mourning for a year and so would not have held any drawing rooms for a year as I understand it. Ladies with daughters/nieces to present would weigh the known state of health of royalties whose demise would affect presentation drawing rooms when deciding on the timing of their charges' debuts.Wabbithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03327252328190944633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196124033481143515.post-12010457254276633752016-04-02T15:01:56.506+01:002016-04-02T15:01:56.506+01:00Does anyone know if the Queen held a Drawing Room ...Does anyone know if the Queen held a Drawing Room at Easter so that debutantes could be presented? Since George III died in January I wondered if this would affect the schedule?Charlotte Bettshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17975904425769809877noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-196124033481143515.post-4117487311268164652015-12-14T02:50:19.402+00:002015-12-14T02:50:19.402+00:00If one studies the dates Parliament actually sat, ...If one studies the dates Parliament actually sat, one sees that it seldom did in the autumn. The state opening of Parliament-- after a general election-- was usually in October or November. Some matters such as wars had them meeting earlier and longer. !819 they met kin the fall and left on 24 December not to return until 2 Feb 1820 but the death of the King made changes in the schedule. I doubt the place of residence of the Royal family had much to do with the season or parliament. The King was at Windsor after he was confirmed in being ill. The Prince Regent lived in Carlton House or Brighton. The Queen's birthday was celebrated in January or February-- I think February-- when many made the journey to participate. Some people lived year round in metro London with short excursions into the country. <br /> The newspapers kept track of the nobility and royalty and recorded where they went and with whom they dined.Regencyresearcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10828749339318882968noreply@blogger.com